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I am making this blog to chronicle a debate between the main admin at Liberapedia, and myself. (Sherman was/is also involved in the debate). I am not doing this for publicity, but for a couple reasons:

The admin might delete and/or alter my comments, thus making me look bad. The admin might alter their own comments to the same effect. By recording the debate here, people will see the comments in their true form, and will be able to tell if they were altered, and back me up if that happens. Hopefully it won't.

Comment #1

You haven't answered why God existing without a cause makes more sense than the universe existing without a cause. You haven't answered why any god/gods that might exist have to be the god of the Bible. You haven't answered why one of very many other religions mightn't be true. 21 hours ago by Proxima Centauri Reply

Response to Comment #1

1. Because God, unlike the universe, exists outside of the laws of physics. He did not have a beginning, because He created beginnings. He did not have a starting point in time because He created time. He existed when there was no time. No attribute of the universe can claim to be outside of the laws of physics. In fact, these very laws prohibit the universe from creating itself.

2. The reason that the god who exists is Yaweh is that no other religions stand up to scientific scrutiny.

3. Similar to the reason above. No other religions stand up to scientific scrutiny. They are unscientific and implausible, unlike Christianity.

Comment #2

Fortunately neither Christianity nor Islam is likely to be true.

How can you tell the difference between Christianity and an abusive husband or boyfriend? "In light of these traits of God, not denied even by Christians - his demand for complete control over his followers' lives, his pervasive jealousy, his regarding men as superior to women, his short temper, his use of both emotional putdowns and physical violence, his blaming the targets of his wrath for making him angry, his constant criticism, and his impossibly high expectations - all the characteristic signs of an abusive relationship - why do Christians continue to worship him? Why do they not only excuse this behavior, not only defend it, but in many cases refuse to recognize that there is anything wrong with it at all? Why, indeed, do they continue to regard this deity as loving, kind, compassionate and merciful, despite this clear evidence to the contrary? "- [1]

Contents 1 Introduction 2 Summary 3 See also 4 References 5 External links 6 Comments Introduction There are many parallels between Christianity and abusive relationships.

Abusive relationships Abusive partners convince the victim that she (occasionally he) is worthless, deserves the abuse and needs to be perpetually grovelling to avoid further punishment. Abusive partners convince the victim that she can't escape the abuse. Whatever the victim does the abuser will catch up with her. Victims of abuse are required to be perpetually obedient. They must change their whole lifestyle to fit in with what the abuser wants and avoid violent flare up of the abuser's violent temper. Christianity Christianity teaches that believers are sinners deserving of Hell. Human beings cannot avoid doing wrong and the more frightened Christians are fear every time they sin that they risk punishment/deserve punishment. Christians feel they need to be perpetually grovelling asking God to forgive them. Believers rarely dare to ask why we are guilty over the imperfect nature that God supposedly gave us. Christianity teaches that believers can't escape God's wrath. Whatever they do God will will catch up with them at the Last Judgement Christian have to change their whole way of life in obedience to what is seen as God's will. The alternative is perpetual torment in Hell. [1][2] [3] [4]

Summary The above is a summary, there is much more good information in the references below.

See also

(See original comment for her links)

My Responses to Comment #2

Parts of your post contained in bold. My responses in normal font.

his demand for complete control over his followers' lives,

God makes no such demands. Instead He gives us the choice of whether or not to believe in Him.

his pervasive jealousy

What kind of jealousy are you meaning? Certainly, God does not want us to worship false deities, because He desires us to live with Him in a perfect place. We were created to have a relationship with God, and I would expect Him to he jealous if we exchanged that relationship for one with demons. This is a good thing. It indicates that He cares about us. Wouldn't you be jealous if people you knew were evil were taking away your relationship with a loved one, even replacing you?

his regarding men as superior to women

God does not consider men superior to women. Read the following Bible verse:

Galatians 3:28 New International Version (NIV) 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

This verse is in regards to salvation. Before the eyes of God, we are all equal.

his short temper

God does not have a short temper. In fact, He has more patience than any human beings, being perfect. He is slow to anger, as the Bible says.

his use of both emotional putdowns and physical violence,

God does not use emotional putdowns. And physical violence is not always wrong. Do you believe it is wrong for a policement to force a criminal into a jail cell via violence?

his blaming the targets of his wrath for making him angry,

I'm not sure what kind of an accusation this is. God only blames those who are responsible for the crime He blames them for, as He knows everything and defines justice.

his constant criticism

God does not constantly criticize us. Despite the fact that we all make mistakes on a daily basis, He gives us a very easy time. In fact, we are so flawed that God could not let us go to Heaven and remain just; therefore He Himself died for us, so that we could go to Heaven. If he doesn't care, why would He sacrifice Himself?

his impossibly high expectations

Quite the opposite. God does not have impossibly high expectations. In fact, salvation has been made attaible for all humans, via God's grace.

why do Christians continue to worship him?

A big part of it is that He loves us so much, that He laid down His own life. In essence, He cares more about us than Himself. Of course, He didn't stay dead, because He is greater than death. Instead, He conquered death and opened the way for us to enter Heaven. Also, seeing as all of your accusations are false, your comment between the two bits I quoted is not relevant.


Part 2 coming up.

51 minutes ago by Obi the LEGO Fan

--


Part 2.

Christianity teaches that believers are sinners deserving of Hell.

By opposing this doctrine, are you claiming all humans are perfect? Everyone has sinned. And anyone who has sinned, even once, is a sinner. Unless you can prove that we are all perfect, this argument is not a good one.

Human beings cannot avoid doing wrong and the more frightened Christians are fear every time they sin that they risk punishment/deserve punishment.

I don't quite understand the grammatical structure here. 'Human beings cannot avoid doing wrong', is true to an extent. As I said, we are all sinners. No one is perfect. Again, I ask you, can you show me one who is perfect? I didn't think so.

I also need to point out that God provides forgiveness for our sins. He is merciful and wonderful and wise. He is not abandoning us. It is also of note, that when He first created humans, we were able to avoid sin. But we 'chose sin. And so have all humans thereafter.


Christianity teaches that believers can't escape God's wrath. Whatever they do God will will catch up with them at the Last Judgement

It is not true at all that we cannot 'escape' punishment. It is true that the punishment had to be meted out. But who took the punishment? GOD. God Himself took the punishment that we deserved. How can you alike Him to an abuser? He is the opposite. He is our Savior. Now, those who believe in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. [Read John 3:16]

Christian have to change their whole way of life in obedience to what is seen as God's will. The alternative is perpetual torment in Hell.

Yes, we are required to change out lifestyle from the old, sinful ways to the Holy ways of God. But this is not a bad thing at all. God's way is the best way- in fact the only way. God's way is best for us, not just for Him. Let me remind you again. He died so that we could be with Him in Heaven.

37 minutes ago by Obi the LEGO Fan

End

If any of you want to join the debate or read more context, go here.

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